jvj

I imagine one of the drawbacks of being a writer is the way it affects you as a reader. No longer can you sit-back and simply enjoy a good book. No, you have to dissect it too! Instead of following the plot, you spend just as much time analyzing the structure of the story and the author's style.

How infuriating is that!!

-Paul

It's a good point, Paul, and I know writers who don't like to read fiction because they feel that way. Not me, though. If a writer is truly good, I get to enjoy their work, plus receive a lesson in craft. To this day I still can't work out how Alice Munro writes so plainly, about every day moments, yet manages to create something extraodinary.

Gah... it affects other stuff too. After an intense poetry critiqing class, I can NOT listen to the radio anymore without tearing apart song lyrics. They're sooo cliche. I can listen to the music if it's skillfully done, but poor lyrics destroy my soul.

To be honest, if the story is great all around I don't get the time to dissect it. Not while reading, anyway. A good story will have me too fascinated. I do give it thought and pick things apart when I put the book down however.It is somewhat of a mixed blessing, I'd agree.

The song lyric comparision is interesting, and true at times. I admit I'm more someone who listens to the music than lyrics and I guess its an advantage that english isn't my native tongue (not that it really is an issue to me..I write my stuff in english haha), some stuff doesn't sound nearly as silly as it might to someone else but there's certainly a fair share of dumb lyrics out there.

Yeah, I think the problem is too many musicians consider lyrics a mere afterthought. They casually stray into the realms of formula poetry looking for a quick-fit solution for their latest tune.

They have real lives. They should just write about their experiences. As the saying goes, 'Keep it real!'

-Paul

A teacher once told me "write what you know."

I find it to be very useful advice.

pfj wrote:They have real lives. They should just write about their experiences. As the saying goes, 'Keep it real!'

But wouldn't that lead to a lot of songs about life on the road and being apart from you family for long periods of time?

Less is more with lyrics (unless the writer is very good). A pop song lasts 3-4 minutes? Too short for wordiness.

that's the point.

anyway ... toto's "home of the brave" is an example for cool lyrics which remain in the grey matter and for a cool tune which starts shuffling the feet.

Well ... I, despite being a person who has written books & stories, ain't dissect any book good enough to keep me page turning. Others I give a flick of the page and put them back for lack of style and craftmanship.

I think I've been lucky in that over the years I've found that I can turn off my inner editor.

It was always so easy, after I'd been writing for a few years and doing online critique workshops, to just settle into the practice of critiquing everything I was reading. Having dabbled in film-making I also began doing it for film as well. Imagine, two great entertainment mediums and you spend the entire time ripping them apart in your mind. It was all the little things, badly placed scenes in an arc, characters doing or saying something that didn't fit within the world built for them.

Of course, after hearing my friends tell me to "shut up" so many times when I would start in on a breakdown of a film that they had just enjoyed watching, I found myself deliberately ignoring faults and going back to just enjoying whatever it was I was reading/watching. I can still turn on that editor, and I find that now, being able to read through the first time without that all encompassing criticality encumbering me has let me be more clear when reading stuff with the intent of critiqueing it.

Of course, that never seems to apply when looking at my own work! I'm far too attached

Note: reading back through that, it could do with a serious edit of its own. "Encompassing criticality encumbering" who writes like that lol.

pfj wrote:I imagine one of the drawbacks of being a writer is the way it affects you as a reader. No longer can you sit-back and simply enjoy a good book.

That's true to some extent. I find that happens with stained glass, which is a hobby of mine: while I enjoy looking at it, before long I start to check out the technical aspects, which takes away a little of the basic enjoyment.

As a professional writer, I find I tend to be picky about (and stumble over) basic errors like poor grammar, structure, spelling, etc. However, I still enjoy the story, provided it's well written.

What bugs me more is reading the tabloids - newspapers, on-line reports, and magazines, as unlike the average book, the standard is much lower.

I find that reading and writing has a positive impact - when I find I'm reading a good book, I'm spurred onto writing and find I'm really productive and satisfied with my work. It's like it prompts me or excites me again - it's so easy to lose the connection the language amidst the crappiness of everyday. It reminds me of it again.

jvj wrote:Less is more with lyrics (unless the writer is very good). A pop song lasts 3-4 minutes? Too short for wordiness.

That never stopped Billy Joel...

Diamond wrote:That never stopped Billy Joel...

Yes - what a pity...(sorry, couldn't resist )
On the bright side it never stopped Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen either.

Isn't the problem the same if you've studied English literature at A-level (High school?) or University? Such courses school you in criticism.

I did Eng Lit at A-level before I decided to do History at Uni, and sentiments were expressed along those lines by my teachers. Personally I can still read junk, though I am acutely conscious that is bad. Conn Iggulden, for instance, is an absolutely woeful writer, but it isn't too difficult plough through his books. It's just that they're bad.

On the other hand, I tried reading The Idiot by F. Dostoyevsky. Normally I'll finish a book no matter if I like it or not, but 320 pages in I couldn't force myself to read anymore. Something widely considered as "literature" I found turgid, inhuman and implausible. Has anyone else read it?

On the issue of song lyrics : The Hangman and the Papist by the Strawbs and Matty Groves by Fairport convention are but a couple of inventive examples. Songs that attempt some form of narrative are usually more compelling than the aimless platitudes of many songs. That said, Springstein can make slightly repetitive lyrics meaningful ( Youngstown is an excellent song), but I don't apologise for my love of Umbrella by Rihanna! I can't explain it.